LAPAC Meeting Minutes

August 21, 2012


Members Present: Carla Brookman, Andre Duvall, Mandy Kotzman, Allan Leibow, Ed Ott, Paul Resseguie, Cordelia Stone, Ed Stoner


Larimer County Planning Staff Members Present:  Matt Lafferty, Russell Legg


Meeting Called to Order: Mandy Kotzman (Chair) called meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.


Agenda: Adopted as written (Ed Stoner motioned to approve the agenda.  Andre Duvall seconded the motion. Motion passed).


Meeting Minutes:  July 17, 2012 meeting minutes were adopted as written (Cordelia Stone motion to approve, Ed Ott seconded, approved).


Member communication items:

1  Carla Brookman reported she had contacted Transit referencing having transit services to the       Laporte area.  2  A meeting will be held August 23rd, 2012, 4-6 p.m., at 281 North College Avenue –

2  Mandy Kotzman noted it has been agreed that members of LAPAC may go as individuals to   neighborhood meetings

3  Russell Legg stated LAPAC members may write letters to commissioners

4  Russell Legg stated Atlas Tower had been approved August 6th, 2012, with items amended:

Windmill must be placed on top;

5  Russell Legg stated Brownstone Quarry was approved July 23, 2012.


County Communication items:

              Randall Pope Community Hall

            Russell Legg gave overview of Community Hall, stating new conditions were for 22 events and

            8 camps annually.  Also noted from Russell, there have been 2 appeals: one for road-base instead of

            paving, and off –premise signage.  Applicant proposed conditions in previous agenda. It was noted that

            the previous proposal was to have 60 camps, but this since has been reduced to 8. 


            Randall Pope presented:

            He stated he followed county recommendations and said people opposed said “nothing is                       acceptable.”  Randall mentioned that in the past, at one of his camps, there were eighteen girls

            and fourteen boys- many whom were sponsored and from under privileged communities – and

these camps were quite successful.  Randall queried “how this type of camp could be

incompatible.”  Randall added that his property was in foreclosure, and he invested $400,000

and “is sitting with a white elephant if he can’t use his property.” 


Dance music continues to be an issue; he invited the commissioners and the neighbors to hear

the sound; and nothing was heard except occasional clapping. Yet the neighbors remain opposed.

Randall mentioned that from Bingham hill one car hear the Swing Station, motorcycles, and

             other noise – yet nobody seems opposed to that. He feels this is an opportunity for Laporte.


Mr. Pope stated he is the only person who would want a conservation easement, and he

expressed not understanding why others would not want this.


Regarding his property, Mr. Pope concluded, it is up to LAPAC and the county to decide the

fate of his property.

Allan Leibow asked about the duration of Mr. Pope’s camps; Randall answered between March

1st and September 30th, - and for any duration. And each camp would have 20 children maximum.

Mandy Kotzman asked for clarification regarding whether 99 people would be allowed for

Events – or 150 to be allowed.  Randall stated 150 – if ok’d by the fire department.  Mandy

asked “how is a microphone not considered amplified sound?”  Randall stated “dance and other

music is considered amplified.”  Mandy stated “players of musical instruments would disagree.”

She asked Mr. Pope if he is struggling to keep with the number of people he is allotted. Randall

answered, “most events would be between 100 and 130, but the limit has been set at 150 –to

prevent violation of his limit.” 


Paul Resseguie asked about the camps and if they would have a limit. 

Matt Lafferty responded “the code says there is a minimum of 2 days duration per camp.”

The amount of camps for which Mr. Pope applied decreased from 60 to 8.


Mandy Kotzman asked “How do you define what is a pre or post event activity?” Randall

stated that pre and post events are excluded from the times listed, and that the times listed are

for the actual event only. 


Neighbors Responses to Randall Pope’s Presentation

Liz Whitney considers the 2 hour time limit at the pond was agreed upon, but it now seems

unclear.  She added the outdoor noise can be a problem.  She asked if the rehearsal dinners are

considered part of an event, if held at a different time; she requested clarification.  She stated she

is fine with the camp aspect of Mr. Pope’s proposal. Matt Lafferty described the history for the

amount of the camps.


Ken Ecton asked “what is this meeting/hearing in statute?”  Russell Legg clarified.  Ken

volunteered that Mr. Pope’s standards have not been met and the neighbors’ property rights

have not been taken into account. Russell Legg responded that the rights exist for the Popes

but also for the neighbors.  Russell added that at the public hearing, things should be made

fair. Ken asked, “Should neighbors surrender their property right? Randall’s use is not a use

for the area; his is a commercial use and is not acceptable. Rather, only agriculture is acceptable.

And the noise generated would not be for just a few minutes – but rather for hours. This is not

a compatible use either.”


Joan Welsh Schmid spoke up: she has 3 properties in the area. Joan read from the minutes from

the board of county commissioners’ meeting, dated 1/11/2012:  “in general, this use proposed by

Mr. Pope is not compatible with the established land use.”  Ms Schmid also read from fire

department document, dated 7/24/2012.


Randall Pope’s Rebuttal to Neighbors’ Responses

There is no time limit per event.

There needs to be 150 guests maximum, but typically there will be 130 guests in order to be profitable.

I do have approval –not “right” – to have 60 camps. I have the right to use the property; I pay taxes.

Seasonal camp has been added to FA farming zoning.

Joan’s property is visible from across the street, but the house is not visible from across the street.

I am aware of the fire department’s limitations.  I have chosen to be an A2 Designation and to

serve food and alcohol.

Traffic is not an issue.

Other parties are not compromising.


LAPAC  Members Responses

Ed Stoner: “For this commercial activity, the sound test is bogus. And the pond will carry the

sound.  The fence will not help a lot.  People laughing and cheering will be problematic.  This

will happen 22 times per summer.  This is not compatible.


Andre Duvall: “I do not believe this proposal is compatible for where Randy lives.”


Ed Ott:  “Clarification – will there be 60 camps, or 8 camps and 22 events?” Matt Lafferty

responded:  “if Randy does not get the event portion of the proposal, he has the right to have

60 camps.”


Paul Resseguie: “Events can’t happen if A2 fire rating is not met, per fire marshall.” Also, the

septic issue is not worked out. I am not for this.”


Carla Brookman: “How did we get this far?  How did we? At some point, Say IT’s OVER!”


Cordelia Stone: “I love the camps but not the event center.”


Ed Stoner motions that Randall Pope’s proposal does not meet LAPAC approval. Andre Duvall

seconded this motion.  Mandy Kotzman asked how many members are for this motion: 5 yes.

1 denies; 1 abstains.


Russell Legg stated Commissioner Gaitor regrets he could not attend this meeting.


Mandy Kotzman adjourned the meeting.