44 Fire House Lane, Red Feather Lake

February 12, 2009




The meeting was called to order at 1:32 p.m. by Chairperson Ted Carter.


Members in Attendance:  Gene Allen, Gene Barker, Ted Carter, Terry Ferebee, Bill Gilbert, Eunice Michalka, Ross Reid, Lucille Schmitt, Michael Sledge, and Roger Svendsen, Ted Carter introduced Marilyn Ramming, who has agreed to take minutes.  She will be paid for her services, $25 per session, by Fox Acres Community Services and All State Insurance, Jim Michalka.


Members Excused Absences:  All other members had excused absences


Larimer County Representation:  Jill Bennett, LARCO Planning, Kathay Rennels, County Commissioner.  Deni LaRue, Community Information Manager.


Guests Present: Stephen Johnson, Terry Donnelly, Pete Blattenbauer and Jim Crawford.


Approval of Minutes:  A motion to approve the January 8, 2009 minutes was made by Lucille Schmitt and seconded by Michael Sledge.  All RFLPAC approve the motion.


Adoption of Agenda: Bill G. asked to add discussion of renaming roads to the agenda.   The Agenda was amended to include a discussion of the renaming of roads.  A motion to approve the agenda as amended was made by Michael S. and seconded by Roger S.  All RFLPAC approved the motion. 


General discussion about how items get on the agenda and what is the difference between public comment and agenda items?  Jill Bennett explained that the chair sets the agenda.  Concerns included that someone could abuse the Discussion time by repeatedly putting their pet topic on the agenda.  Commissioner Rennels pointed out that scheduling agenda items allows time for county staff to be present for discussion and for the public to be aware of issues to be discussed.  Ted asked for informal agreement of the PAC that it be a general policy that when issues needing further discussion come up in public comment, they be made an agenda item for the next month’s meeting.  No opposition was expressed.


Communications from Committee Members: Michael S. reported on the Road Subcommittee.  Six roads have been identified as appropriate for the designation of public road:  Hiawatha Hwy west of CR 67J, Dowdy Lake Road, Nokomis Rd, Ramona Dr, Letitia Dr, and Owassa.  The first step in designating these roads as public is to request a baseline road survey from the county commissioners.  There must be a survey to provide legal description as part of declaring roads public roads.  Some of these roads are already designated public; some are de facto public roads; and some are not officially designated.  Declaring these roads public roads is important to the possibility of future development, such as potential right of way for utilities.  Declaring a road a public road does not infer with county maintenance or any other use. 





Terry F. was appointed to the road subcommittee to replace Gene Barker who resigned.

Jill Bennett stated that subcommittee meetings need to be open and announced to the public, even though all issues are brought back to the full PAC.  Jill B. will post future meeting times on the county calendar.  Weekly meetings will be in the Library Community Room, February 16th and 23rd at 12:30 – 2:30, March 2nd through May 4th at 11:00 – 1:00.


Gene B. has spoken to the son of Dennis Frydendall. Dennis is improving but unable to return to PAC meetings, yet.  Ted asked that Gene continue to pursue information.

Comments from the Audience:  None




Bill G. brought up a concern about the Rural Address changes.  He feels the historic names of roads such as Prairie Divide, Red Feather Lakes Road, Deadman Road, should be kept.  Kathay Rennels explained that there has to be a compelling reason to use a road name outside of the codification set up by the county.  She noted the appeals process, on the county website, to have a road designated an historical road; the historical basis for the name carries the most weight.  Kathay recommended appealing one road at a time rather than a group of roads all at once.  PAC’s recommendations would carry no more weight than a citizens’ committee.  It was informally agreed that Bill would lead a citizens committee on this issue and PAC members may offer their information and support individually.




Pete Blattenbauer presented his plans for a Red Feather Lakes Automotive Center to include an auto body shop, tow and storage yard, mechanic services, tire & front end alignment services, and the possibility of hosting Car Club Shows.  There is the possibility in the future of a car wash and laundromat if a recycling system and well issues can be worked out.  He has a contract on 11 acres at 24654 W CoRd 74E.  His plans include an ~ 8000 sq.ft. metal building, a log entry with bathrooms, 14 ft.doors in back so no cars will be sitting in front but customers, an 8 foot privacy fence around the back of the building to screen cars, a special stall to keep leaking antifreeze off the ground, 45yd set back from the fence at the front of the property, limit of 10 cars in the fenced yard, landscaping to help screen, excavation of the yard behind the building to help screen, hazardous wastes hauled monthly, water based paint, recycled asphalt to keep down dust, chemical fire suppressant, fresh air make up system, approximately 6 people working at any one time.  Pete requested some sense of PAC members’ attitudes towards his proposed project before investing a great deal of money.


Jill Bennett pointed out that rezoning, with public input and hearing would be required to allow this use at this location, with body shop and tow yard with special review. 

Concerns and comments expressed by PAC members:

-  assurance that additional components, such as the Laundromat, be additionally approved by the county

-  parking space for car shows

-  size of signs on building

-  impact of noise, etc., on neighboring residents

-  desire for more detail

-  previous PAC decision not to open this part of 74E for commercial use

-  desire to see Pete’s business succeed

-  more comfortable with location considered previously, next to Ponderosa Realty

-  snow removal and disposal

-  feeling that attitude toward the project could change depending on future details


RFLPAC comments:  PAC members did not feel ready to offer a unified comment.  Ted C. recommended that Pete consider what he has heard in the discussion and make his own decision.




Currently, PAC meetings may be recorded for the purpose of making sure the minutes are accurate; the recording is only available to the Secretary and must be destroyed after the minutes are approved.  Gene B. stated that he felt the recordings should be preserved, not destroyed.  He expressed concern that the recordings could be needed to clarify disputes on votes recorded in the minutes or in case of possible legal proceedings.  Jill Bennett clarified that the laws and statutes regarding meeting minutes vary for different organizations.  She believes PAC has no requirements except what PAC decides; the county planning department would provide storage for recordings kept for an extended time.  Gene B. stated that he felt anyone in the public should have access to the recordings; Jill B. confirmed that legally anyone can have access to the retained recordings.  Ted C. stated that PAC meetings are open and anyone can come to hear what is said;


Permission to record the meetings was originally granted only as a convenience to the Secretary.  Keeping recordings of the meetings provides opportunity for abuse of quotes used out of context. 

Gene B. made motion:   “Recordings of the meetings will be retained for 1 year after approval of the minutes of that meeting.”  Gene A. seconded the motion.


Roll Call vote was:

Gene Allen                  yes

Gene Barker                yes

Ted Carter                   no

Terry Ferebee              yes

Bill Gilbert                  yes

Eunice Michalka         no

Ross Reid                    yes

Lucille Schmitt            yes

Michael Sledge           no

Roger Svendsen          no


The motion carried.


RFLPAC meeting adjourned at 3:42 p.m.




Michael Sledge